Karla Homolka is released

[Angel~Eyes]

Originally posted by FrankieBones

Thanks. It's all coming back to me now. Speaking of Leslie, do you know if the French and Mahaffy families have come forward for interviews since yesterday? I can't imagine how they are feeling.
imo

Just found this great site. I'm not sure if it was posted before.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/07/04/1116605-cp.html

[Angel~Eyes]

Originally posted by FrankieBones

Thanks. It's all coming back to me now. Speaking of Leslie, do you know if the French and Mahaffy families have come forward for interviews since yesterday? I can't imagine how they are feeling.
imo

Anguish per this link....my heart goes out to them:(

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2005/07/04/1117074-cp.html

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by FrankieBones

Thanks. It's all coming back to me now. Speaking of Leslie, do you know if the French and Mahaffy families have come forward for interviews since yesterday? I can't imagine how they are feeling.
imo

They must be disgusted with the Canadian Court System. This women should still be in Jail!! IMO..

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


They must be disgusted with the Canadian Court System. This women should still be in Jail!! IMO..

The families signed off on the deal 12 years ago. They were consulted before it was offered. At the time, they would have have expected her to be released much earlier than her full twelve years as would have been customary if not for the outrage over the video tapes that later came to light.

[Angel~Eyes]

Is the movie still being released:mad:


http://www.deadlythemovie.com/news.htm

[Angel~Eyes]

Homolka's show of remorse empty: families' lawyer


http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1120603067914_23?hub=topstories

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by Angel~Eyes
Homolka's show of remorse empty: families' lawyer


http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1120603067914_23?hub=topstories

This women is so sick!!!:cuss: The poor families...I hope Tim Hortons turns her away!!:cuss:

[Angel~Eyes]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


This women is so sick!!!:cuss: The poor families...I hope Tim Hortons turns her away!!:cuss:

I was glad to read that the families will continue to seek restrictions on her freedom. May God give them strength to continue the fight against the injustice done to them. I wish there was something I can do. Anybody have ideas? Circulate a petition? I'll do anything to get this woman monitored 24 hours a day.

"Danson says the families plan to assemble a panel of psychiatrists and psychologists who will try to prove Homolka is still dangerous and should continue to face restrictions on her freedom."

[Lauriet]

Originally posted by giddyupalw


They must be disgusted with the Canadian Court System. This women should still be in Jail!! IMO..

I agree with you, I'd be disgusted and horrified...

she should have spend the rest of her life behind bars . IMO

That plea deal should have never been offered. :mad:

[giddyupalw]

Originally posted by Lauriet


I agree with you, I'd be disgusted and horrified...

she should have spend the rest of her life behind bars . IMO

That plea deal should have never been offered. :mad:

This women should not be let out on the streets.. God knows what she will do....

At least we all agree!!

Originally posted by Lauriet


I agree with you, I'd be disgusted and horrified...

she should have spend the rest of her life behind bars . IMO

That plea deal should have never been offered. :mad:



And I agree with you...the moment they discovered the tapes..and the TRUTH - that deal should have been revoked and she should have been locked up for life.

I had the honour of meeting Ms. Mahaffy - Leslie's mother approximately 4 years ago when she was visiting our local high school to speak to the students - what a remarkable woman. I can't begin to imagine what the families have gone through or what they are dealing with now that she is back out.

The only word I can think of is - pathetic. The system failed these victims. The system failed these families.

My opinion - Karla was never a victim - she made her own choices. Karla is not sorry for what she did to those girls. Karla should not be out of jail - ever.


Misstiblu - Thunder Bay Ontario

:rose: to the victims...and the families.

Originally posted by FrankieBones

Let's try to keep this board open, k? Let's all put this jackass on ignore before it destroys this board. She's posted long enough during this emotional time without ANY links to substantiate her posts.

Report to CW at ctv_cw_moderator@hotmail.com , be sure to put "URGENT - northernrflxn" at the beginning of the subject line, and provide a copy of her post with a link to it.

Enough is enough.

[Lauriet]

Originally posted by misstiblu



And I agree with you...the moment they discovered the tapes..and the TRUTH - that deal should have been revoked and she should have been locked up for life.

I had the honour of meeting Ms. Mahaffy - Leslie's mother approximately 4 years ago when she was visiting our local high school to speak to the students - what a remarkable woman. I can't begin to imagine what the families have gone through or what they are dealing with now that she is back out.

The only word I can think of is - pathetic. The system failed these victims. The system failed these families.

My opinion - Karla was never a victim - she made her own choices. Karla is not sorry for what she did to those girls. Karla should not be out of jail - ever.


Misstiblu - Thunder Bay Ontario

:rose: to the victims...and the families.

what a nice post misstiblu..... :seeya:

[Lauriet]

Originally posted by AreYouSerious?
Let's all put this jackass on ignore before it destroys this board. She's posted long enough during this emotional time without ANY links to substantiate her posts.

Report to CW at ctv_cw_moderator@hotmail.com , be sure to put "URGENT - northernrflxn" at the beginning of the subject line, and provide a copy of her post with a link to it.

Enough is enough.

Good idea, I'm doing that and will report to CW when it's as bad as today. :patriot:

Originally posted by misstiblu



And I agree with you...the moment they discovered the tapes..and the TRUTH - that deal should have been revoked and she should have been locked up for life.

I had the honour of meeting Ms. Mahaffy - Leslie's mother approximately 4 years ago when she was visiting our local high school to speak to the students - what a remarkable woman. I can't begin to imagine what the families have gone through or what they are dealing with now that she is back out.

The only word I can think of is - pathetic. The system failed these victims. The system failed these families.

My opinion - Karla was never a victim - she made her own choices. Karla is not sorry for what she did to those girls. Karla should not be out of jail - ever.


Misstiblu - Thunder Bay Ontario

:rose: to the victims...and the families. I've been astounded by the strength, class and grace of the families of these two beautiful girls despite their unimaginable pain for well over a decade now.

They certainly do not deserve to have to now re-live the heartache by having Karla rub her freedom in their faces. :(

[chilione]

Originally posted by FrankieBones

Thanks. It's all coming back to me now. Speaking of Leslie, do you know if the French and Mahaffy families have come forward for interviews since yesterday? I can't imagine how they are feeling.
imo

I can't even fathom how the French and Mahaffy families are feeling right now. I'm sure it is beyond horrified. I am so angered and disgusted that the scumbag that did this to them was let out and I have never even met them. I don't know how they have the restraint not to go after Karla and give her a good beating. I don't think a jury would convict them if they did IMO.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by otenn


But from what I read recently, the fact that she was instrumental in her sister's death...as in the force that stopped her sister's breath (by applying the halothane soaked rag to her mouth to keep her unconscious) was enough to break the deal on ALL the charges.

Apparently, the deal only applied if she was found NOT to have actually stopped the breath of any of the victims.

When they exhumed and reexamined her sister's body, the "accidental" death ruling was changed to homicide, and she was the one who caused the death, but they STILL did not revoke the deal when they could have right then and there on those grounds.

The deal was already done at this point, but they didn't want to revoke the deal, even though they had the evidence they needed to do so.

Karla's "deal with the devil" for participation in the murders of Leslie and Kristen was for 10 years. I just read that when they exhumed Tammy's body and found that her death was a homicide instead of accidental, they "updated" Karla's plea bargain to include "Two for Tammy" bringing the total to 12 years.

My question is this: If they could "update" her plea bargain to add the extra two years to her prison term, then WHY couldn't they "rescind" her plea bargain because by then they knew the full extent of her crimes because of the release of the tapes? This just doesn't make sense to me and I will never understand it as long as I live!

:shrug:

[Angel~Eyes]

Hochelaga-Maisonneuve District is 10 minute driving distance from my house.:eek:


http://www.canada.com/national/features/homolka/story.html?id=fba2455c-cc7d-4931-827a-d0ee87bbfc4c

[Angel~Eyes]

Her appeal moved to Sept 22/05. I hope this will allow her to screw up and get her butt back in prison.

http://www.canada.com/national/features/homolka/story.html?id=2b476f6b-e2ec-443d-af29-0d7e65bb7ce3

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by AreYouSerious?
Let's all put this jackass on ignore before it destroys this board. She's posted long enough during this emotional time without ANY links to substantiate her posts.

Report to CW at ctv_cw_moderator@hotmail.com , be sure to put "URGENT - northernrflxn" at the beginning of the subject line, and provide a copy of her post with a link to it.

Enough is enough.

I completely agree. All of us also need to add rhiannon~1. If one isn't bashing you, the other one is. All they want is trouble and to get this Board closed down. Let's don't give them the satisfaction!

United We Stand ~ Divided We Fall!

[2L8 4A D8]

Thanks May for all of your GR8 links! All of my neighbors in Canada, please keep the U.S.A. posted. Like I have stated, I don't know about anybody else here in the States, but I am not getting information on Karla at all.

:seeya: :patriot: :seeya:

[Angel~Eyes]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8
Thanks May for all of your GR8 links! All of my neighbors in Canada, please keep the U.S.A. posted. Like I have stated, I don't know about anybody else here in the States, but I am not getting information on Karla at all.

:seeya: :patriot:

Morning sweetie,

Did you see the one I posted on Paul Bernardo speaking out?



:seeya:

[hockeymomof5]

Karla Homolka's first days of freedom have been spent holed up in an apartment amid fears media outlets will report on her whereabouts, one of her lawyers said Wednesday.

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=a580308a-3100-4a4a-8db9-bc77f70e4ea7

Poor, poor Karla. Doesn't your heart just break for this poor THING???

I imagine the fear that she must be feeling at this point can't even possibly compare with the fear her and Paul made their victims suffer. They too were holed up (in a house) and in fear. Not even close to "just desserts" IMO.

Hope she rots in that apartment or better yet,......never mind.

Originally posted by hockeymomof5
Karla Homolka's first days of freedom have been spent holed up in an apartment amid fears media outlets will report on her whereabouts, one of her lawyers said Wednesday.

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=a580308a-3100-4a4a-8db9-bc77f70e4ea7

Poor, poor Karla. Doesn't your heart just break for this poor THING???

I imagine the fear that she must be feeling at this point can't even possibly compare with the fear her and Paul made their victims suffer. They too were holed up (in a house) and in fear. Not even close to "just desserts" IMO.

Hope she rots in that apartment or better yet,......never mind. She's not blindfolded. She's free to travel without restrictions for any 48-hour period.

Her victims weren't as lucky. She's playing the same manipulative game she always has, and will continue to do so.

The country is smarter than that, though.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by rhiannon~1


I think you've got things backwards. You posted nasty to me, remember? I just replied. Sorry you didn't like it!

Trouble is not accepting that others who may have the tiniest difference in point of view should not have a voice. I'm from Canada, have family in Quebec, have followed the case from the beginning, and have a family member in the Crown Prosecutor's office, though not the one who took Homolka to trial - this is all INTERESTING to me, and I have the same right to post as do you. So carry on......... you really don't own the shock and outrage. ;)

No, you have it backwards as usual. I just answered your post to hockeymomof5. Since you didn't clarify what you meant by "some posters" and you expected me to be a mindreader, I just posted my opinion according to your post. If you took my reply as "nasty" that's your problem, not mine!

Yes, you do have the same right to post as me. However, I find it quite odd that this Board was just fine until you and northernrflxn showed up. You both have an agenda as far as I am concerned. I don't think that I could look through any of these Threads and find one nice post to anyone here from the two of you ~ except for the posters that agree with you two, of course!

JMO and MOO!!

[hockeymomof5]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


No, you have it backwards as usual. I just answered your post to hockeymomof5. Since you didn't clarify what you meant by "some posters" and you expected me to be a mindreader, I just posted my opinion according to your post. If you took my reply as "nasty" that's your problem, not mine!

Yes, you do have the same right to post as me. However, I find it quite odd that this Board was just fine until you and northernrflxn showed up. You both have an agenda as far as I am concerned. I don't think that I could look through any of these Threads and find one nice post to anyone here from the two of you ~ except for the posters that agree with you two, of course!

JMO and MOO!!

They are apologists for Karla and have apparently gotten sucked into the "Karla's a victim" manipulation. Perhaps they are swayed by the "pretty face", though I thought she looked like hell in the interview. I suppose that's what "Prison Barbie" looks like after 12 years.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by hockeymomof5


They are apologists for Karla and have apparently gotten sucked into the "Karla's a victim" manipulation. Perhaps they are swayed by the "pretty face", though I thought she looked like hell in the interview. I suppose that's what "Prison Barbie" looks like after 12 years.

Yeah, Karla looked like she has been rode hard and put away wet! Some kinda ugly, but then I never thought she was that attractive. Skanky biotch!

[Wukong]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Yeah, Karla looked like she has been rode hard and put away wet! Some kinda ugly, but then I never thought she was that attractive. Skanky biotch!

Hey 2l8, I don't know, I think she's a little hottie!;) :biggrin:

[hockeymomof5]

Originally posted by rhiannon~1



WHO is an apologist for Karla Homolka??? I'd like a link for that.

Don't assume something you know nothing about - and - speak for yourself in the future. Appearance of others isn't really something I place much emphasis on, though apparently it is for you.

TIA for the link!!!!!!

Anyone who argues in defense of Karla, using the belief that Karla is a victim. The apologists are those who are using what they believe to be her victimization as an excuse for her participation.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by MidwestSteff
I give this board.. maybe another week until it's locked for good.

Good grief.. :rolleyes:

This Board is not any worse than the OJ Simpson Board, the Laci and Scott Peterson Board, and the Politics Board, etc. Have you also gone into these Boards and posted what you just posted here? If you don't like what's going on or what is being said, then pass it on by! Kinda like your TV with the remote.

JMO and MOO!!

:rolleyes:

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by MidwestSteff


LMAO... :lol:

Someone pee in your Wheaties this morning..??

I love it. I love reading you guys post about ignoring people.. only to respond to them again and again and again..

If you don't like what I post don't read it.. or respond to it.. ya know.. make an empty promise like you've done to those you don't agree with but keep arguing with.

ROTFLMAO!!!! :lol: :lol:

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by MidwestSteff


Exactly. Pretty stupid, isn't it? Maybe you'll keep your promises now and the board wont get shut down for petty bs.

If this Board gets shut down, it won't be because of me I assure you. It will be because of 2 posters who came on this Board and have done nothing but cause trouble. The Board was fine until they showed up. They know who there and I am sure that you do too!

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by MidwestSteff



LMAO... :lol:

Someone pee in your Wheaties this morning..??

I love it. I love reading you guys post about ignoring people.. only to respond to them again and again and again..

If you don't like what I post don't read it.. or respond to it.. ya know.. make an empty promise like you've done to those you don't agree with but keep arguing with. I haven't noticed any posts by you under your "MidwestSteff" nic.
Maybe you're getting your nics confused when you sign on and post? :shrug:

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by AreYouSerious?
I haven't noticed any posts by you under your "MidwestSteff" nic.
Maybe you're getting your nics confused when you sign on and post? :shrug:

She is talking directly to me AYS. I stated that I would not respond again to a certain poster and I did. WOW! So string me up by my toenails! I find it quite odd that MS just shows up "out of the blue" and posts what she did, don't you?

:shrug:

Originally posted by MidwestSteff




Exactly. Pretty stupid, isn't it? Maybe you'll keep your promises now and the board wont get shut down for petty bs. Why would you concern yourself about the longevity of this thread/board when you've not contributed a single fact or intelligent post?

Maybe if you'd stop injecting your troublemaking posts and leave us to discuss the facts it would have a longer life, no?

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Wukong


Hey 2l8, I don't know, I think she's a little hottie!;) :biggrin:

I have just totally changed my opinion of you, Wukong!

:eek:

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


She is talking directly to me AYS. I stated that I would not respond again to a certain poster and I did. WOW! So string me up by my toenails! I find it quite odd that MS just shows up "out of the blue" and posts what she did, don't you?

:shrug: Yup. :)

BTW at some point, can you explain how to string someone up by their toenails? I've been trying to figure that out since you posted this and the various visuals are cracking me up. :D

[northernrflxn]

To YOU know who YOU are:

Nobody here has done anything other than try to express a slightly different point of view, mostly patiently.

Spew a few more silly accusations about posters and their nics. Mercilessly dissect each and every dissenting post for typos, but never for content. Keep on with the high fives and the frequently self important and self righteous inanity. Go ahead and do all that - but don't ever go to bed thinking you have any real curiousity about these crimes or an interest in anything approaching an actual discussion.

Some of the statements that are left unchallenged on these threads are shocking. You're an ever tightening tangle of savages gathered around your kill, ripping and tearing and howling and pausing only momentarily to glare and growl and bare your bloody and gristle strung teeth at anyone who approaches with anything less than evisceration on their mind. It is very disturbing to me, and I would imagine to others as well.

You have no right, other than that which you've given yourselves through group hypnosis and your own bloodlust.

My opinion only.

[goatgirl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lauriet
[B]

I read somewhere that she now speaks perfect french huh?

snip_____________________________________________



Hi Lauriet

I am not sure if anyone touched on the French speaking yet-

But here in Canada we have to learn French during our school years, its our second language.

Karla during her prison stay didn't learn to speak French, She just perfected the language, and very well I may add :(

I hear the French Canadians were very impressed with her speaking skills ?!

strange...but Quebec people take French speaking very serious

just an fyi to share ...

goatgirl



:seeya:

Originally posted by northernrflxn
To YOU know who YOU are:

Nobody here has done anything other than try to express a slightly different point of view, mostly patiently.

Spew a few more silly accusations about posters and their nics. Mercilessly dissect each and every dissenting post for typos, but never for content. Keep on with the high fives and the frequently self important and self righteous inanity. Go ahead and do all that - but don't ever go to bed thinking you have any real curiousity about these crimes or an interest in anything approaching an actual discussion.

Some of the statements that are left unchallenged on these threads are shocking. You're an ever tightening tangle of savages gathered around your kill, ripping and tearing and howling and pausing only momentarily to glare and growl and bare your bloody and gristle strung teeth at anyone who approaches with anything less than evisceration on their mind. It is very disturbing to me, and I would imagine to others as well.

You have no right, other than that which you've given yourselves through group hypnosis and your own bloodlust.

My opinion only. Oh enough already with your dramatics. :rolleyes: Sheesh.

Haven't you realized by now that, after all of your factless posts, no one takes you seriously?

All of the erroneous statements that were successfully challenged were YOURS. Get over it.

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by AreYouSerious?
Oh enough already with your dramatics. :rolleyes: Sheesh.

Haven't you realized by now that, after all of your factless posts, no one takes you seriously?

All of the erroneous statements that were successfully challenged were YOURS. Get over it.

My posts are full of facts that nobody cares to hear because they interfere with dinner.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by AreYouSerious?
Yup. :)

BTW at some point, can you explain how to string someone up by their toenails? I've been trying to figure that out since you posted this and the various visuals are cracking me up. :D

Isn't that what they say? Or is it "by the b@11$?" But since I don't have any...

LOL!

:shrug:

[Wukong]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


I have just totally changed my opinion of you, Wukong!

:eek:

Just having a little fun with ya. Didn't you see my wink and impish grin? Good to see you have other interests beside giving/taking beatings on that other board which shall remain nameless.:seeya:

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Wukong


Just having a little fun with ya. Didn't you see my wink and impish grin? Good to see you have other interests beside giving/taking beatings on that other board which shall remain nameless.:seeya:

I knew that you were messing with me! LOL! And I also know that you can do better than KH. I mean even if she was never in prison, she is one ugly biotch!

:D

[hockeymomof5]

Originally posted by goatgirl
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lauriet
[B]

I read somewhere that she now speaks perfect french huh?

snip_____________________________________________



Hi Lauriet

I am not sure if anyone touched on the French speaking yet-

But here in Canada we have to learn French during our school years, its our second language.

Karla during her prison stay didn't learn to speak French, She just perfected the language, and very well I may add :(

I hear the French Canadians were very impressed with her speaking skills ?!

strange...but Quebec people take French speaking very serious

just an fyi to share ...

goatgirl
:seeya:

Thanks for pointing that out on the board. I was thinking the same thing when listening to the interview and the comments afterward regarding her "learning to speak French" in prison.

I'm surprised those in Quebec didn't criticize her for speaking without the accent as yes, they DO take the language very seriously.

My 10 yr. old came home the last day of school with his report card in hand. He was very excited because he got straight "A's" except for French. He thought I would be upset because he got a "C" in his oral French. I just laughed and told him, "who cares......it's French". My concern is in the other grades, even phys. ed, before French. Though I did remind him that he had five more years of it, so he had better participate more and bring that grade up IF he wanted to maintain a high average once in high school.

[hockeymomof5]

Originally posted by rhiannon~1
<snipped to take the garbage out>
Did you notice not one of them even mentioned what both you and I thought about driving her underground? :seeya:

I can't speak for the others on this board, but I will speak for myself regarding not mentioning your thought on "driving her underground". I didn't respond because I didn't think it required a response. I didn't respond because I wasn't interested in responding to it. I didn't respond because I didn't think it was a valid concern.

However, considering that it was important to YOU enough so that I detected a bit of "whining" about it, I will address it now.

The courts have put strict restrictions on her movement and considering the outcry from the public, I believe they will make sure she follows them or she will find herself back in prison, where she should be anyway.

I also believe the media will be more than happy to follow her whereabouts and keep the public informed. There will not be a rathole in this country that she will be able to hide in, though she certainly deserves to live in one.

I'm confused so perhaps you could clear something up for me. Why would you be concerned of "driving her underground" if you don't believe her to be a threat?

Next.

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by hockeymomof5


Thanks for pointing that out on the board. I was thinking the same thing when listening to the interview and the comments afterward regarding her "learning to speak French" in prison.


My 10 yr. old came home the last day of school with his report card in hand. He was very excited because he got straight "A's" except for French. He thought I would be upset because he got a "C" in his oral French. I just laughed and told him, "who cares......it's French". My concern is in the other grades, even phys. ed, before French. Though I did remind him that he had five more years of it, so he had better participate more and bring that grade up IF he wanted to maintain a high average once in high school.

Hi hockeymomof5

I can so relate to that...LOL...

I hated French in school, it was so painful !!

The worse part is I spent all that time learning it & I have hardly ever have had to speak it...:)

goatgirl :)

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by rhiannon~1

Did you notice not one of them even mentioned what both you and I thought about driving her underground?
______________________________________

my guess on the whole underground thing, is that Karla is planning on going underground regardless of what happens...


why else would she be reading that book about not being found-or going underground during her prison stay ....?

but now she has to stick around for another year & keep her nose clean...

imo goatgirl .....

[Zodiac]

Relax people the poor girl served her time , get off her back!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Zodiac
Relax people the poor girl served her time , get off her back!

12 Years for being an accessory and willing participant to 3 murders (including her baby sister) doesn't even come close to "serving her time!" She should be right up there with her despicable husband ~ LWOP!

She's not some poor little girl! She knew exactly what she was doing and people are not going to just let her walk off on her merry way and "get off her back!" You're dreaming. Sorry! However, you do have a right to your opinion, as do I!

This is JMO and MOO!!

[elvislives]

Originally posted by
Excellent link, Angel. :seeya:

Especiall this point:

"The most obvious is that the tapes do not, in fact, depict the murders of Kristen French or Leslie Mahaffy, Code said. Without that, prosecutors still considered Homolka's testimony essential to convicting Bernardo of first-degree murder."

It's always been up in the air who killed them: Karla or Paul or both.

In the US, we have something called felony murder laws. Basically what this means is that if, during the commission of a felony (e.g the rape of your little sister, or the abduction and rape of a school girl) someone dies, all parties committing the felony are guilty of murder, regardless of who the actual killer was. So if this case occurred in the US it wouldn't matter if Paul or Karla was the actual killer, they would both be tried for first degree murder under the felony murder laws. Canada needs to pass these laws asap.

[elvislives]

Originally posted by northernrflxn


Stephen Williams, who wrote two extremely unflattering books about her, said he doesn't believe she will reoffend.
Many experts tend to agree with him too. There is no way to know, and we will just have to see. I think it is far more likely that she will reoffend if all this mindless mob justice drives her out of polite society.

I agree that she is unlikely to reoffend, however I also think that Susan Smith is unlikely to reoffend--and she still belongs in prison for life, same with Karla Homolka. I don't agree with those who think that Karla was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and it could have happened to anyone who hooked up with Paul. These two were a toxic couple...he was definitely a serial offender with or without her, but she kicked him into high gear and facilitated the crimes. Kristen French would never have been abducted but for Karla's involvement, not to mention her sister.

[matelot]

Will someone PLEASE JUST **** THIS ***** !!!????

I will donate!

[Swifty]

I agree that she is unlikely to reoffend, however I also think that Susan Smith is unlikely to reoffend--and she still belongs in prison for life, same with Karla Homolka. I don't agree with those who think that Karla was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and it could have happened to anyone who hooked up with Paul. These two were a toxic couple...he was definitely a serial offender with or without her, but she kicked him into high gear and facilitated the crimes. Kristen French would never have been abducted but for Karla's involvement, not to mention her sister.


Well I am going to be rather unpopular for this post, I fear.

It seems that an important point in this forum is often getting lost. And that is Paul Bernardo's propensity for rape, assault and murder.

At the time of the Scarborough rapes [which I notice have never even seen brought up in this forum] which occurred both previous to his relationship with Karla Homolka as well as during the time he was dating her--police profilers and psychologists were already predicting that he would soon commit murder as the violence of his rape MO was increasing with each attack. He was a sadistic rapist with a preference for cutting his victims with knives, choking, battering and anally raping them after following them off the bus while demanding they call him "the king" and tell him "you are the best". Two were left barely alive and he may well have assumed they were dead. One survived because she 'played dead'.

Scarborough and Toronto were in the grip of fear for years over this man's attacks. He was the reason that buses now stop at any stop after dark on the route for women to get home. This all seems to be forgotten.

He had a long history of partner assault, strangulation as well as partner/acquaintance and stranger rape long before he dated Karla.

I believe that Paul Bernardo was completely capable of murder without including Karla Holmolka into the mix. He was on the road to serial killing, regardless of her involvement.

Yet, I see less rage directed at him than at Karla. I suspect this is due to the fact that he has been DO'ed [Dangerous Offender, no chance for parole except for "faint hope" clause] and Karla was not.

There is no question that Karla Holmolka's medical records show that she was battered by Paul Bernardo to the degree of broken bones and permanent physical damage.

That being said, it does NOT excuse Karla's lack of action when she was well aware of what Bernardo was capable of doing. She was culpable as both an accessory before and after the fact of at least 3 homicides [including her own sister] and 3 rapes committed with her knowledge. It does NOT exclude her responsibility as a citizen to protect the lives and safety of those individuals. In the case of her sister and Jane Doe, she also provided the substances [halothane and halcyon] that incapacitated the victims.

Nor does that excuse her self-aggrandizing behaviour in calling the media to draw attention to her release from prison. I cannot imagine the incredible pain her self-interest must have caused for the Mahaffy & French families as well as Jane Doe and Becky. Such complete self-absorbtion is beyond the comprehension of most members of society.

At one point, I spoke to a lawyer who had been both a prosecutor and a defense attorney on similar cases. The reality is that Karla would *not* under Canadian law have served much more time than she did unless she was charged with homicide. Nor were there enough charges to D.O. her

I have some understanding of the rage this case must engender for many. The very thought of a woman who can be so duplicitous and self-serving is hard to comprehend. However, the courts do not deal in emotions, nor should they. That is the job of the mental health profession.

The reality is, Karla is out.

Will she re-offend?

There are those pointing to the fact that she had a "prison romance" with a man who killed his girlfriend. This says to me that she is still attracted to domineering, violent men. What it does *not* say is that she has the potential to be a rapist or murderer without a dominant partner. What is frightening is that violent men may seek her out as a potential victim and partner in crime.

All we can hope for is that she and those close to her, have the sense to notice and prevent such a recurrance.

_________________________

Nice to meet you all.

[VictorianLady]

Well I am going to be rather unpopular for this post, I fear.

It seems that an important point in this forum is often getting lost. And that is Paul Bernardo's propensity for rape, assault and murder.

At the time of the Scarborough rapes [which I notice have never even seen brought up in this forum......All we can hope for is that she and those close to her, have the sense to notice and prevent such a recurrance.

_________________________

Nice to meet you all.

Good post Swifty! The Admin cleared out/archived the boards that discussed the Scarborough rapes....Karla is "old" news now, but she and her type is still scary....I sincerely hope she never reoffends, I think we'd just feel better if she was locked up with her partner in crime. But there are worse criminals out there.....JMO

[deputydi]

In the US, we have something called felony murder laws. Basically what this means is that if, during the commission of a felony (e.g the rape of your little sister, or the abduction and rape of a school girl) someone dies, all parties committing the felony are guilty of murder, regardless of who the actual killer was. So if this case occurred in the US it wouldn't matter if Paul or Karla was the actual killer, they would both be tried for first degree murder under the felony murder laws. Canada needs to pass these laws asap.
Nor should it matter who the actual killer was. Both IMO were equally culpable and both should have suffered the same penalty. Karla's plea agreement should have been voided the minute those tapes were discovered. I will never understand why it wasn't.

[VictorianLady]

Nor should it matter who the actual killer was. Both IMO were equally culpable and both should have suffered the same penalty. Karla's plea agreement should have been voided the minute those tapes were discovered. I will never understand why it wasn't.

Yes, I will never understand why either.....they say they needed her testimony or they couldn't have nailed him, when they could have stopped him when he was still a rapist....not a murderer....they both did horrible crimes, but she walks free (if you can call that kind of life free)

[northernrflxn]

Nor should it matter who the actual killer was. Both IMO were equally culpable and both should have suffered the same penalty. Karla's plea agreement should have been voided the minute those tapes were discovered. I will never understand why it wasn't.

Karla's plea agreement should have been voided based on what? Clearly the justice system couldn't function if the state had the power to void plea agreements because they felt like it. Her plea agreement would have been voided had the tapes shown her to be a dishonest witness. They didn't, so the agreement stood, as it should have.

[northernrflxn]

Swifty:

I disagree with your characterization of Homolka's controlled interview as some kind of indicator of innappropriate self interest or insensitivity. The media interest was at a fever pitch, and she was either going to be chased and hounded by every outlet in the area every night on the evening news, or she was going to largely eliminate the clamouring. Wisely for everyone, and on the advice of council, she chose the latter. The approach is as common as dirt - the famous do it all the time. To this day, I imagine she could call anybody in the media and have some kind of platform made available to her. Her silence beyond that first strategic and necessary interview just may be her respect for the victims - it's certainly what I would do and I don't think it can be eliminated as a possibility. Regardless, she was taking care of her physical and mental health, as is her right (and perhaps even obligation), but not at the expense of anybody else.

[elvislives]

Yes, I do think she's without humanity. She's a pariah, a predator and a self-absorbed narcissist. She's an actress--only publicly 'acts' out what she thinks is the appropriate response for a situation since she is devoid of feelings for anyone/thing other than herself. Can you imagine drugging your innocent little sister so your depraved sick excuse for a FIANCE can have sex with a virgin?? And then your sister dies as a result, and then you STILL marry the guy (did she learn anything from what happened? NO!), and later you express annoyment bec your parents had to spend THEIR $$ burying the sister YOU secretly killed, $$ that you feel should have gone towards your wedding/honeymoon???

Then you CONTINUE on a KILLING spree with your husband, kidnapping chicks HE fancied so you cd BOTH have sex with them, and kill them when you're done. Detach and discard in true narcissistic form. The video tape should wipe out any doubt in anyone's mind that you enjoyed what you were doing.

My friend lives in Valleyfield Montreal and everyone is on high alert. They've been following you during your short tenure in prison. They know about your active prison sex life. They know about the books you like to read---gruesome true murder books--does it turn you on, help you relive the murders you participated in? What a waste. Instead of remorse, you show an active compulsion towards torture, degradation and murder. You are like a dog who has tasted blood and should be put down. Your gravitation towards another murderer in prison tells me you're comfortable with this. He killed his girlfriend? Hopefully you'll meet someone just like him on the outside. Actually, you disgust me more than Peterson. Your random acts of violence, rape and murder make you a menace to society. :flamemad: moo

Well put. I Couldn't agree more.

[Lunamoth1942]

I think a lot of people have a problem when Karla behaves like a normal human being. We are conditioned to see her as "monstrous" -- and once someone is publicly defined as a monster, everything they do, down to their tiniest little gesture, is scrutinized in the light of their being Evil. Of course evil people are often deceptive. Of course they often hide behind a facade of innocence. That would also apply to people who haunt Crime boards and constantly protest how deeply they feel for the poor victims.

There is definitely an element of witch-hunting in the Williams books. He so much WANTS to believe she, and only she, is the real evil-doer that he constructs even her most innocuous statements and actions as proof of what a brilliant manipulator she really is. He then implies that Karla is somehow the embodiment of the Dark Feminine, and that this force is absolutely uncontrollable and destructive, always has been, always will. With that leap into patriarchal mythology, he ends his second book, KARLA, tarring all women with guilt for being the cause of man's Fall. So we're back in the land of Masonic woman-hating, and fundamentalist guilt-mongering.

Imagine, for a moment, what it would be like to have the "Monster" label applied to you for your entire life. Whatever you did, would make no difference: you are eternally damned. In the case of Homolka, maybe we can justifiably say "She deserves it."

But then, imagine that label being applied to some other woman -- let's say similar to Karla but not Karla -- who really was a mind-controlled slave of a husband who was a high level Satanist. Or to the child of a couple involved in Satanic abuse, which is what the Bernardos were practicing in their basement.

What about all the people who are fascinated by that "evil" -- shouldn't they share in the label?

I think people need to watch out for those projections which -- as Northernflxn keeps tirelessly and thanklessly pointing out -- are often based on something irrational.



Swifty:

I disagree with your characterization of Homolka's controlled interview as some kind of indicator of innappropriate self interest or insensitivity. The media interest was at a fever pitch, and she was either going to be chased and hounded by every outlet in the area every night on the evening news, or she was going to largely eliminate the clamouring. Wisely for everyone, and on the advice of council, she chose the latter. The approach is as common as dirt - the famous do it all the time. To this day, I imagine she could call anybody in the media and have some kind of platform made available to her. Her silence beyond that first strategic and necessary interview just may be her respect for the victims - it's certainly what I would do and I don't think it can be eliminated as a possibility. Regardless, she was taking care of her physical and mental health, as is her right (and perhaps even obligation), but not at the expense of anybody else.

[Lunamoth1942]

Richer Lapointe. the Longueuil, Quebec hardware store owner who gave Karla a job, then outed her, was a member of a cult that promotes eugenics.

Paul Bernardo was a Mason. The Masons also actively promote eugenics.

Eugenics has, since its beginnings, gone hand in hand with programs of mind control. Both aim to create amoral human puppets with no souls or feelings, obedient slaves who live to satisfy their lower urges for sex, power, money.

Paul and Karla were the perfect mind-controlled couple.

What Stephen Williams and others leave out is the obvious question: Who controlled them?

Was the cover-up around Karla's plea bargain also about protecting that secret?

[Sasha1122]

That is the most ridiculous theory I have heard yet.

Wait....

What's that.....? I feel something.....a little twitch.....its....its......

Oh God.....it is the Canadian government...!!! No....not that.....No....

They want me to.......NO......they want me to.......they are trying to make me....they are demanding that I like Hockey and CELINE DION!!!!

OH JESUS......NO!!!!!

Someone help me!!! (Damn those Canadians and their mind control!).

[cami]

That is the most ridiculous theory I have heard yet.

Wait....

What's that.....? I feel something.....a little twitch.....its....its......

Oh God.....it is the Canadian government...!!! No....not that.....No....

They want me to.......NO......they want me to.......they are trying to make me....they are demanding that I like Hockey and CELINE DION!!!!

OH JESUS......NO!!!!!

Someone help me!!! (Damn those Canadians and their mind control!).

It's Johnny Canuck to the rescue. Now give me all your money as you are now under my mind control and I've added CURLING as well as hockey and Celine.

aaaaaaaahahahahahaha terrific post..thanks for the good laugh.

[cami]

. Canada needs to pass these laws asap.

Why should we? To make you americans feel better?

Even if Karla had been charged with three counts of murder, she probably would have been parolled after 15 or 16 years. Our life sentence is 25 years but you can apply for early parole after 15 years. One of the McDonald's killer has already been granted day parole in anticipation of full parole later this year.

Link to the story: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/562132.html

In order for Karla to have received the same sentence as Paul, she would have had to have been tried on sex crimes and then declared a dangerous offender.

[Lunamoth1942]

Actually, the CIA has been creating mind controlled killers since the early 1950s. Some of them surface in the news as mass murderers. Some work for the military, torturing prisoners at Guantanamo.

After you've stopped laughing, you might want to investigate this ugly chapter in American history -- which is reaching new heights at Guantanamo.

Karla and Paul just happen to fit the profile. Paul came from a Mafia family. He was a Mason. Their relationship was text-book BDSM, that's bondage-domination-sado-masochism. She was his obedient slave. Read about that sometime. Sexual slavery is also part of mind control. As were the drugs they used --

None of this ever came up at the trial -- and it's not in the books. But for anyone who has read about Trauma Based Mind Control, the signs are all there. Transparent. Obvious. And the really funny thing is how some people think the Death Penalty and fascist laws will protect us from monsters like Paul and Karla.

[TallaTonight]

Actually, the CIA has been creating mind controlled killers since the early 1950s. Some of them surface in the news as mass murderers. Some work for the military, torturing prisoners at Guantanamo.

After you've stopped laughing, you might want to investigate this ugly chapter in American history -- which is reaching new heights at Guantanamo.

Karla and Paul just happen to fit the profile. Paul came from a Mafia family. He was a Mason. Their relationship was text-book BDSM, that's bondage-domination-sado-masochism. She was his obedient slave. Read about that sometime. Sexual slavery is also part of mind control. As were the drugs they used --

None of this ever came up at the trial -- and it's not in the books. But for anyone who has read about Trauma Based Mind Control, the signs are all there. Transparent. Obvious. And the really funny thing is how some people think the Death Penalty and fascist laws will protect us from monsters like Paul and Karla.


OMG I come from a long line of Masons! Good caring men who have made great lives for their familys since as far back as family stories go. My husband is even a Mason! Does this mean we are going to be a Paul or a Karla? NO, and that is one lame excuse,They were cruel and they were and are monsters. Mind control my foot, evil and self serving Oh Yeah!!! MOHO

[Lunamoth1942]

OMG I come from a long line of Masons! Good caring men who have made great lives for their familys since as far back as family stories go. My husband is even a Mason! Does this mean we are going to be a Paul or a Karla? NO, and that is one lame excuse,They were cruel and they were and are monsters. Mind control my foot, evil and self serving Oh Yeah!!! MOHO


Yes, the vast majority of Masons are well-meaning, honest people -- it's at the 33rd degree level that this organization becomes Satanic.

At the 32nd degree, Masons are tested. They are asked if they are prepared to renounce Christ to progree higher. I would guess the majority refuse to renounce Christianity and its values. At that point, they are congratulated and told they have answered correctly, and achieved the highest level of awakening available to a Mason.

Then there are the few who say they would renounce Christ. These are the ones who progress to the highest levels.

If my husband was a Mason, I would ask him about that.

[Lunamoth1942]

OMG I come from a long line of Masons! Good caring men who have made great lives for their familys since as far back as family stories go. My husband is even a Mason! Does this mean we are going to be a Paul or a Karla? NO, and that is one lame excuse,They were cruel and they were and are monsters. Mind control my foot, evil and self serving Oh Yeah!!! MOHO



Do you live in Ontario? The Masons are huge there. The Hamilton area, where I once lived, is a centre for occult groups, witchcraft covens, etc. The Orange Lodge is also very popular all over Ontario -- and it's a front for the Masons. And of course, most of its members and their families are (Protestant) Christians and think it's just a charitable organization that helps people have "great lives." It's also true that the Orange Lodge was traditionally anti-Catholic and anti-French, and that membership in it was a stepping stone to getting into military intelligence during the Second World War. I know, because my dad came from eastern Ontario and his mother, who was from Kingston, secretly joined the Masons to help her children advance in the world. And they did. But there was a price attached.

If you're curious, you can google <<Masonic mind control satanic abuse>> and read accounts from all over North America which will probably remind you a lot of the things Paul and Karla did and went to jail for. Paul and Karla were special, in that they got caught. The explosive details of their case were feverishly hushed up, supposedly to protect the families of the victims -- but much more likely to protect men in high offices who participate in the kinds of secret rituals that, occasionally, produce a Paul Bernardo who runs amok.

[cami]

Do you live in Ontario? The Masons are huge there. The Hamilton area, where I once lived, is a centre for occult groups, witchcraft covens, etc. The Orange Lodge is also very popular all over Ontario -- and it's a front for the Masons. And of course, most of its members and their families are (Protestant) Christians and think it's just a charitable organization that helps people have "great lives." It's also true that the Orange Lodge was traditionally anti-Catholic and anti-French, and that membership in it was a stepping stone to getting into military intelligence during the Second World War. I know, because my dad came from eastern Ontario and his mother, who was from Kingston, secretly joined the Masons to help her children advance in the world. And they did. But there was a price attached.

If you're curious, you can google <<Masonic mind control satanic abuse>> and read accounts from all over North America which will probably remind you a lot of the things Paul and Karla did and went to jail for. Paul and Karla were special, in that they got caught. The explosive details of their case were feverishly hushed up, supposedly to protect the families of the victims -- but much more likely to protect men in high offices who participate in the kinds of secret rituals that, occasionally, produce a Paul Bernardo who runs amok.

Oh come on, Paul Bernardo was peeping in bedrooms at a young age...before puberty. Was he a Mason then? In his teens? Was he a Mason when he was raping and beating his girlfriends...long before Karla?

Paul Bernardo is a sexual deviant..nothing more. He's a sadistic monster who never should see the light of day again. I wish we had the DP strictly for him..

[Lunamoth1942]

Oh come on, Paul Bernardo was peeping in bedrooms at a young age...before puberty. Was he a Mason then? In his teens? Was he a Mason when he was raping and beating his girlfriends...long before Karla?

Paul Bernardo is a sexual deviant..nothing more. He's a sadistic monster who never should see the light of day again. I wish we had the DP strictly for him..


Lots of pre-pubescent boys peep into bedrooms, slobber over dirty pictures, but don't grow up to become serial rapists and murderers, or deserve the DP for being obsessed with sex.

Paul Bernardo was a sexual deviant, yes, and a whole lot more. He came from a wealthy family with a scent of the Mafia about them. Paul Bernardo's father was a pedophile who molested Paul's sister, while Paul's mother rarely emerged from the basement of their enormous mansion.

The perverted sex and mind control that Bernardo practiced on Homolka, and others, mirrors details of other cases where victims claim to have been subjected to Masonic ritual abuse.

I'm sure the majority of Masons are fine, upstanding citizens. But the fact is, Bernardo was a Mason, as are most Ontario cops -- which is one reason they released him the first time he was picked up in connection with the rapes in Scarborough. Had his Lodge brothers not protected him that time, he might not have gone on to kill French and Mahaffy.

[denisevans2003]

I still cannot find the movie "karla" near me I am in California and nothing does anyone on here know anything about this movie I looked on the website and e-mailed them several times with no reply.

[stoodge88]

I must has been living under a rock for the last 10 years and have only just read the story of this horrific crime thismorning!

i am appalled by the details of this crime & the sickening sympathy that is being given to this discustinbg human being.

I have just read an article about a TV interview with her & she said this in regards to her release and everyone wanting her to die;

"i dont want to be hunted down & i dont want people to think i am going to hurt their children"

How dare she think she has the right to have a choice in how she is treated for the rest of her life! Im positive all of those poor young girls did not want to be raped, humiliated & their lives ruined but did they have a choice or a say in the matter? NO. So why under any circumstances should she not be hunted down & for people to think those things!! She will never experience what her & pauls victims did and frankly i think she has gotten away with everything quite easily & has been given alot of things she wants!! She got access to all the women she wanted by being out into prison!!!

It is saddening to think what if any protection or prevention the judicial system provides society from these kinds of monsters/:flamemad:

[glzimm2]

In another thread Karla is described as a victim of Paul Bernardo's sexual and emotional abuse.

This may be true but I would insert the word 'willing' before 'victim'.

Unfortunately, Betty Broderick and Karla Homolka will always be held 'not responsible' by apologists who go to the extreme to will them innocent.

To 'cleanse' Karla Homolka's actions by calling her a victim is defiling the spiritual remains of her dead sister.

Paul and Karla both should have been passed into hands capable of removing their flaws of arrogance, inhumanity and, perhaps worst of all, avoidance of the common sense that nature gives to the dumbest of animals.

Would you put your favorite female relative in a cell with Paul....would you put Karla Homolka in a cell with Paul....?

Yes to the latter? Then you believe that she deserves to die....and you believe in poetic justice.....

It seems that God believes in capital punishment....ultimately, time runs out for all of us...even the seemingly innocent.

[dallasvic]

If she is a victim. JC Her own sister dang no way!! If she was a victim then when the killing started I would have headed to the police first thing. The only victims were the ones they killed, the vic's familys and their own familys. I could not imagine how their family have felt about this. Their kids are killers. I pray for them all. I wish that she would have stayed in prison til the baby was born because the would awared the baby to the state. I really feel for that child when it gets older and I am sure since this was such a bad crime that it will still be talked about for years to come. That poor child will hear this for another child I bet you that.:flamemad:

[mandy1]

IIRC the prosecutors went easier on her in exchange for her testifying against her husband who was also involved in the crimes. At the time she was claiming she was a battered wife and only cooperated with him because she feared for her life and the lives of her family. After the plea bargain was made they found a homemade video tape that made it very clear she was a willing and enthusiastic participant, not a victim herself. It was too late to change the plea bargain they made with her. She played them big time and it sounds like she is still playing her parents. If she moved anywhere near me I would pack up and leave.

Karla never claimed to be that battered wife... The lawyer and police saw her bruises and beat up face which implied she was a battered wife. The police donned her the battered wife because even with the tapes they had no link to murders... Karla was the only person who witnessed the murders. Karla never even brought up the deal with prosecutors. She got a lawyer becuase she thought she was going to be charged with murder. She told the lawyer about the tapes and the police spent 71 days looking for them but to no avail. Karla never knew where they were. Paul hid them above a light fixture in, I believe, the kitchen.

[glzimm2]

Maybe you've made other posts indicating your position in regard to guilt or innocence. I haven't gone through all of the posts prior to the last few.

Are you saying she was innocent?

[BedOfRoses07]

I can't believe she got away with murder. And not to mention with what she done to her sister! Some people are just sick. She is just as guilty as he is and she should be suffering in jail also!!!

[glzimm2]

I can't believe she got away with murder. And not to mention with what she done to her sister! Some people are just sick. She is just as guilty as he is and she should be suffering in jail also!!!


Amen to that....!!!!!

[BedOfRoses07]

Karla never claimed to be that battered wife... The lawyer and police saw her bruises and beat up face which implied she was a battered wife. The police donned her the battered wife because even with the tapes they had no link to murders... Karla was the only person who witnessed the murders. Karla never even brought up the deal with prosecutors. She got a lawyer becuase she thought she was going to be charged with murder. She told the lawyer about the tapes and the police spent 71 days looking for them but to no avail. Karla never knew where they were. Paul hid them above a light fixture in, I believe, the kitchen.


You know... She may have been beaten by Paul.. But she made a choice to stay with him... When in all truth she should have left when this whole thing started... She does claim to be the battered wife.. She didn't say otherwise that she wasn't. She participated in those murders just as much as he did. She was the one who was picking up the victims! So I would say she was more than just a witness in the murders. She helped killed them too.

[freekee99]

One of the things that has always chewed at me, is that in one of the books I read on this subject PB said that he went to work and left KH at home with Kristen French and when he came home she was dead.

Its always niggled at the back of my mind, what if he was telling the truth. KH went to work at her animal hospital everyday while Leslie Mahaffy was in their house and never told anyone.

What if PB really wasn't in the house when Kristen French was killed. Both were beautiful, young, vibrant, girls and from what I've heard Kristen was quite the fighter while captive. Maybe KH was the instigator for the murders.

It seems weird that PB was happy peeping in windows and raping women until he hooked up with KH and her dog collars that she wore as a fashion statement.

[baked_tater]

Freekee99, I too believe she had much more involvement. It has been a few years since I read about the case, in fact I just found Lethal Marriage among my saved books and plan to read it again soon. I am pretty disgusted she is out and has bred and procreated already.

[Canadian Bum]

Bump